Author Topic: Reboot  (Read 720 times)

rozgo

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Reboot
« on: February 03, 2017, 06:19:23 am »
Somewhere to start dropping some dev nuggets while we get a formal process together.

rozgo

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Re: Reboot
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2017, 06:28:54 am »
This video is a few weeks old, posting before it gets too old to share.


A few things that have happened after this video:
- physics substeps
- multithreaded physics
- custom wheel physics

MarvinMan

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Re: Reboot
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2017, 07:53:56 am »
It looks like everything is working very well so far. The graphics are a massive improvement and from what I can see in the video the physics is at least as good as the current version.

Only thing I noticed is that the joints between parts seem fairly weak.

z26

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Re: Reboot
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2017, 06:05:47 pm »
The bendy joints ironically seems to help in that video, working as a suspension.  The wheels seems quite grippy, but bouncy

Oh, and "custom wheel physics" got me curious.  AFAIK most games don't actually need to simulate rotating cylinders and so don't bother doing it, so I'm curious about Rawbots' approach.

Multithreaded physics is good to hear, dunno how it works internally however. Have parts distributed between threads, or instead something more complex?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 06:10:41 pm by z26 »

MarvinMan

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Re: Reboot
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2017, 06:17:46 pm »
Yeah, I had noticed that. A certain amount of flex is useful, and possibly unavoidable, but in my opinion joints could do with being strengthened compared to the current version.

Perhaps the custom wheel physics is to deal with how wheels start to skip over the surface at high speed or tend to dig in when steering at speed. I assume the wheel physics model is built from polygons rather than being treated as a perfect cylinder, so the custom physics could be to smooth over that so bots don't effectively have square wheels.

I'm also glad to hear that threaded physics is finally happening. Hopefully that will let more bot to bot interactions happen.

Bonfi96

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Re: Reboot
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2017, 10:10:21 pm »
I love to know that we'll hear more often about the development process.
I wonder, do you guys think this has anything to do with the new joints?
Obviously they are not that floaty

PressureLine

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Re: Reboot
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2017, 11:53:37 pm »
Perhaps the custom wheel physics is to deal with how wheels start to skip over the surface at high speed or tend to dig in when steering at speed. I assume the wheel physics model is built from polygons rather than being treated as a perfect cylinder, so the custom physics could be to smooth over that so bots don't effectively have square wheels.

Quite the opposite usually. A perfect cylinder is used for several reasons: the obvious 'square wheels' thing, plus in most physics sim engines, there are pre-defined shapes (spheres, cylinders, 'capsules' [a cylinder with hemispherical endcaps] and cubes) that are far more efficient than arbitrary polygonal shapes because they can (and do!) have various speedups built in to the engine.
"Never assume that anything you've never seen before is benign. Most particularly not something that says 'MARINES' on it."

MarvinMan

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Re: Reboot
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2017, 12:18:09 am »
That's interesting. I'd always assumed physics engines used the same models as the graphics rendering or an even coarser approximation.

I wonder when we'll see some of the other parts? The few we've seen so far are looking good, so it'll be interesting to see how some of the other parts like jets and fins come out.

Bonfi96

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Re: Reboot
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2017, 12:20:13 am »
Cylinders are quite performance heavy for dynamic collisions, that's why they are often consideres as convex meshes instead, ue4 uses physx and there's no shape for a cylinder. Though it has a wheel collider that I'm pretty sure is considered as a circe as the math for that is way easier.
But we have rozgo and he writes custom stuff for us, so no idea on what rawbots uses.
As the wheels are wide, maybe he used a combination of both, a wheel collider and a simpler convex collider, the first one for the smooth riding, the second one for object collisions.

I won't sleep tonight thinking about wheel colliders, I want answers  ;D

rozgo

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Re: Reboot
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2017, 11:34:36 am »
This is also happening... mod-building and VR editing... custom editor, construction and runtime blueprints.


rozgo

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Re: Reboot
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2017, 11:47:27 am »
UE4 has new ClearCoat shader models that could help with the finish of armors.


Not final render, as its missing proper HDR studio lights. Armor shapes are being studied for composability.


MarvinMan

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Re: Reboot
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2017, 07:50:14 pm »
everything seems to be coming together at an impressive pace.

VR functionality looks cool. A physics-free grid aligned building space like that would be really useful for normal building too.

Are the new armour pieces primarily decorative, or do they actually add to defensive capabilities? Some simpler armour plates could be useful too.

Does the new engine handle light sources any better? It would be nice to be able to have headlights on bots without having to worry about the performance hit.

zobbyblob

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Re: Reboot
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2017, 04:41:15 am »
You guys have no idea how happy I am this game has some fresh life in it. I wouldn't say it was a game that started my education in engineering, but it definitely helped get me into designing and building quadcopters, control systems and aerospace engineering. Sometimes it's nice to take a step back from school and just build something in a game. I really hope this game makes a comeback.

Best of luck!!!

MarvinMan

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Re: Reboot
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2017, 08:26:40 pm »
Welcome!

Things are still rather slow around here, but it is starting to pick up a bit.

cupid_the_conqueror

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Re: Reboot
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2017, 05:11:57 am »
Im pretty much a ghost these days given the approaching takeoff of my military career. But I figured I would chime in here...

With the newest AMD cpu line pushing the market even further down the mutli core path (8 real with up to 16 hyper threads) beacuse of the obvious  computational benefits, we can safely assume the core wars has started. Intel has rumored to be working on a new 12 core cpu.

The future is going to be filled with heavily multithreaded applications. Heck most AAA games support the quad core standard! And developers aren't shying away from getting the most out of 8 and 10 core machines thanks to a whole WACKLOAD of work being done by software development engineers for the back end stuff that makes game engines tick. And the benifits of this shift can also be seen in the server market (22 core xeons anybody?). With companies like amazon investing huge sums into developing cloud networking like lumberyard to support future MMO and streaming demands.

Obviously as a sandbox and as a simmulation Rawbots will benefit highly from this increase in multithreaded power. Heck multiplayer might actually happen given the general increase in data putthrough.  But what kind of hardware is the development team aiming for?

Alotta development teams who know that their cycle could be 5+ years aim their highend for hardware that doesnt even exist yet, knowing it'll be there when they get there.

The simmulation of 100 moving parts and 1000 VP hexes across a multi player instance sounds like it takes alot of juice. Lord knows the current rawbots could bring an i7 6600k to a standstill. What kind of hardware is future rawbots going to be aiming for? Will the average gamer have it by then?

Im excited to see, keep up the good work!
At the end of the day, love conquerors all.