Author Topic: Autonomous Combat League  (Read 3167 times)

MarvinMan

  • Automation Expert
  • Experienced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
  • Likes: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Autonomous Combat League
« Reply #45 on: April 02, 2016, 08:50:37 pm »
Yeah, it is quite amusing how my first combat bot doesn't stand a chance against any of the later bots.

I had been considering building a bot with a number of single-use lances tipped with a grenade. The lances would either be made from pistons or elbows held together with long arcs so they can be stored in a compact form and then hold the grenade away from the bot when deployed. Depending on the target part count and bot size, the lances could be kept in an armored box.

Firing grenades with a plasma cannon looked like a nice idea, but it triggers the cooldown on the grenade.

z26

  • Experienced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • Likes: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Autonomous Combat League
« Reply #46 on: April 02, 2016, 09:28:46 pm »
As Pressureline told me thats the unfortunate consequence of energy and hp being the same thing.  Low hp = depleted energy.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 09:55:46 pm by z26 »

Sleeping_Owl

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • Likes: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Autonomous Combat League
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2016, 07:06:51 pm »
One of my designs from old forums
Nest (unlimited)
I didn't count parts, but this one is so fat it could be the reason why bots got divided into classes.
Iron-shaped war machine with three land missiles. If it can't destroy your bot, it will destroy your CPU.



https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByzpYkai1-8lYkhLLWkxdVlRQkU

How to count parts? Camera's activity underestimates this thing.

z26

  • Experienced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • Likes: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Autonomous Combat League
« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2016, 07:21:39 pm »
How to count parts? Camera's activity underestimates this thing.

Carefully :p

Oh and welcome!

MarvinMan

  • Automation Expert
  • Experienced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
  • Likes: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Autonomous Combat League
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2016, 11:04:02 pm »
Is there any way to beat that with the current rules without resorting to grenade based countermeasures? Ramming attacks seem to be very effective despite the nerfed lasers, so two grenades should take out practically anything. There aren't any bots fast enough to evade the missiles, and deploying decoys isn't really practical, so the only real option left is to try to intercept the missiles using cannon fire, requiring high DPS and/or high accuracy.

Seeing how well the current ACL format is working, I was thinking about starting up an aircraft version. In theory, the lack of terrain makes it easier to get into, but the full 3D flight makes it much harder to perfect.

z26

  • Experienced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • Likes: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Autonomous Combat League
« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2016, 11:10:40 pm »
a purposefully made hovering bot might be able to evade these missiles, since it doesn't have to worry about obstacles as much when moving around.

MarvinMan

  • Automation Expert
  • Experienced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
  • Likes: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Autonomous Combat League
« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2016, 11:27:47 pm »
Depending on how the missiles are triggered, a hover bot might not have to deal with them at all. Dodging the initial ramming probably isn't too difficult, but persistently keeping out of the blast radius as the missile follows the bot around would be near impossible. And that's before you consider that there may be multiple missiles or other opponents.

Sleeping_Owl

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • Likes: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Autonomous Combat League
« Reply #52 on: April 04, 2016, 12:26:00 am »
Nest can attack only ground targets, so there is an obvious way to defeat it - fly (such fight would be boring).

There still is no missile that can effectively destroy both air and ground targets.
My experiments stopped at three branches:
1. Land missile.
2. AA missile that can't hit ground targets.
3. Flying missile that barely hits ground targets, useless against moving targets.

So missiles are only good in unlimited class, they are specialized and you can't have more than 2-3 of them.

I think it is possible to build plasma bot with better aim that can dodge for some time and damage any existing missile enough to make it useless. We haven't seen fully armored missiles yet.
Such bot would require quite much math, and rawbots has terrible interface for math.
If it will be a ground bot, it should not use wheels, jet slider design is better at dodging because it can move in any direction.

So given enough effort, Nest can be beaten with plasma. But if an arms race starts, I would bet on missile bots in 1 vs 1, and grenade-ramming swarms in free fights.

PressureLine

  • XFM Developer
  • Administrator
  • Experienced Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 192
  • Likes: +4/-0
    • View Profile
    • Rawbots Club Forums
Re: Autonomous Combat League
« Reply #53 on: April 04, 2016, 06:09:48 am »
I didn't count parts, but this one is so fat it could be the reason why bots got divided into classes.

...

How to count parts? Camera's activity underestimates this thing.

I load up the blueprint in Notepad++ and get it to count all the instances of "local_to a_" then subtract any control blocks, as well as all the instances of "_rotor\n" (for the second part of motors and elbows) and "_head\n" (for the second part of pistons) remember to change the search type to the 'Extended' type (\n is for new line)
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 10:14:14 am by PressureLine »
"Never assume that anything you've never seen before is benign. Most particularly not something that says 'MARINES' on it."

MarvinMan

  • Automation Expert
  • Experienced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
  • Likes: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Autonomous Combat League
« Reply #54 on: April 04, 2016, 10:13:14 am »
Perhaps anti-air missiles would be more effective if they got a burst of acceleration when they were exactly aligned with the target. That should help with attacking ground based targets too, as the missile could align itself at a relatively high altitude, then perform a high-speed dive into the target.

PressureLine

  • XFM Developer
  • Administrator
  • Experienced Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 192
  • Likes: +4/-0
    • View Profile
    • Rawbots Club Forums
Re: Autonomous Combat League
« Reply #55 on: April 04, 2016, 10:16:59 am »
I get the raw partcount of Nest as 189, once the control block and the second parts of any motors, elbows and pistons are subtracted it comes out to 170. I'll update the bot directory post accordingly.
"Never assume that anything you've never seen before is benign. Most particularly not something that says 'MARINES' on it."

cupid_the_conqueror

  • Global Moderator
  • Experienced Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 89
  • Likes: +0/-0
  • A filthy casual
    • View Profile
    • the truth of rawbots
Re: Autonomous Combat League
« Reply #56 on: April 04, 2016, 05:31:36 pm »
Perhaps anti-air missiles would be more effective if they got a burst of acceleration when they were exactly aligned with the target. That should help with attacking ground based targets too, as the missile could align itself at a relatively high altitude, then perform a high-speed dive into the target.

this is really tricky though, I tried to make a short range rocket that would just accelerate super fast to hit its target, and it would either be tooo slow, or clip through the target, or just knock the target flying with the kinetic force before the grenade exploded.

if your traveling at more then 200 velocity, you'll often clip right through the hexterrian
At the end of the day, love conquerors all.

MarvinMan

  • Automation Expert
  • Experienced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
  • Likes: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Autonomous Combat League
« Reply #57 on: April 04, 2016, 08:58:21 pm »
it would either be tooo slow, or clip through the target, or just knock the target flying with the kinetic force before the grenade exploded.
Perhaps kinetic weapons could be effective in some cases. Many of the combat bots are as good as dead once they roll, so a kinetic missile could be used to flip a bot before finishing it off with conventional weapons. They may work as a countermeasure against ramming attacks too.

MarvinMan

  • Automation Expert
  • Experienced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
  • Likes: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Autonomous Combat League
« Reply #58 on: April 04, 2016, 11:44:17 pm »
I've been playing around with swarm bots a bit more. I re-built my previous swarm bot with hooks for navigation and copied the control code across from my main combat bot. The result makes much better progress around the map than the previous version that bounced off of the walls.

I'm not sure what to do about weapons as there's only one free connection point left. I was going to try putting a grenade on each bot, but lasers could work well and would take less effort to coordinate the attack. I suppose I could try and put a cannon on it again, but that causes a load of problems with aim, recoil and where to put the capacitor.

BTW, does projectile velocity affect damage? I was playing around with boosting the velocity of low energy shots, and they seemed to be doing more damage than expected.

Sleeping_Owl

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • Likes: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Autonomous Combat League
« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2016, 12:00:48 am »
I load up the blueprint in Notepad++ and get it to count all the instances of "local_to a_" then subtract any control blocks, as well as all the instances of "_rotor\n" (for the second part of motors and elbows) and "_head\n" (for the second part of pistons) remember to change the search type to the 'Extended' type (\n is for new line)

Here is a script that does what you described. Needs either linux shell or cygwin. Says that Nest is 171 part.
Use like:
$ ./count_parts.sh < bp_Nest

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByzpYkai1-8ldE1JZ0xmQWNtMFE